S2M-4255 Civil Justice Reform

Scottish Parliament

Thursday 20 April 2006

[THE PRESIDING OFFICER opened the meeting at 09:15]

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Civil Justice Reform

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-4255, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, on civil justice reform.

14:57

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16:37

Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): The debate has been characterised by a variety of insights into the system and by a useful degree of consensus—there has been greater-than-usual consensus on the front benches. I can speak comparatively free from the tickle in the back of my throat entirely as a result of an intervention by the Deputy Minister for Justice, who passed a peppermint to me earlier in the debate. He is an old sweetie.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh): I should point out that eating in the chamber is against the standing orders, Mr Stevenson.

Stewart Stevenson: I am not sure that I said that I ate the peppermint, Presiding Officer.

That aside, what happened neatly illustrates a legal dilemma that I might have in the civil justice system. If I fall ill this evening during my drive north to my home, I do not know whether I should sue the deputy minister—of course, he might be subject to parliamentary privilege in that regard—or the manufacturer of the peppermint. I did not see who the manufacturer was, although I think it was Trebor, which is of course a highly respectable company.

Bill Aitken: Despite Mr Purvis's admonitions about using technical language, does Mr Stevenson agree that it would be a case of volenti non fit injuria?

Stewart Stevenson: Mr Aitken illustrates his ability to turn from poacher to gamekeeper. In his role as a poacher, that would be a matter for the criminal law. I expect sanctions to be levied against him in due course.

It is interesting to examine the attitudes of those of us who are not lawyers to the legal profession. Early in my professional career, I worked with an eminent company of lawyers in Edinburgh called Maclay Murray and Spens, which was universally known as Delay, Worry and Expense: chant the name together—we all know it. The name perfectly illustrates the attitude of lay people towards civil justice and lawyers in general. For many people who are not poor enough to be supported in pursuing legal actions or wealthy enough to pursue legal actions to the point of absolute resolution and satisfaction, going to law is genuinely difficult.

In her introductory remarks, on the first of her six points the minister talked about disproportionate costs. She made the fair and absolutely reasonable point that going to court is costly just to get £750. However, what she did not mention, although it was mentioned in the strategic review on the delivery of legal aid, advice and information, which started in 2003, was that there is disproportionate risk and reward for the different parties when a large corporation and a private individual are in confrontation before the courts. The review document acknowledges that under the heading, "Ensuring equality before the law". In fact, the document goes further than that.

The minister may recall that my colleague, Fergus Ewing, wrote to her on 7 April about one of the voluntary organisations in his constituency, which believes that it may be about to be sued. As a voluntary organisation, it is not entitled to civil legal aid and has limited resources to resist the depredations of a large company that is threatening—however indirectly—to sue it. It is a difficult and complex area, and the fear of runaway costs will be a huge deterrent to a company's going to law to defend its interests, whether to pursue someone or to defend against an unreasonable attack from a large body. The members of the review panel—unusually, although I am not sure why—included a representative of the Big Lottery Fund board. In many ways, that perfectly illustrates that going to civil law can be, for many people, a bit of a lottery.

Kenny MacAskill, who is a lawyer, spoke of his difficulties in enforcing a warranty. If a lawyer says that it is difficult—

Mr MacAskill: A retired lawyer.

Stewart Stevenson: My colleague reminds me that he is a retired lawyer.

My spouse, on the other hand, has had a similar issue in relation to a minor bump that she had in the car. Fortunately, she had inadvertently ticked the box on her insurance application and paid the extra £10 to get legal support. When she got it, the support was excellent: she had no fears about the costs and she got her excess back from the other party, who had caused the accident. Had she not ticked that box, the £300 in question would have gone west.

This has been a useful debate, which has touched on many aspects of life in Scotland. More and more of us are becoming engaged in civil law and, perhaps, in criminal law. The efficiency and effectiveness of court processes must be addressed, but we must also consider how we can give people affordable access to more efficient processes. In speeding things up, we cannot trade off thoroughness and fairness against speed because one party's advantage may, in certain circumstances, be another party's disadvantage. It is complex, and we wish the minister well in her endeavours on this. When she gets it right, we will support her.

16:44