S3M-1386 Scottish Water [Closing Speech]

Scottish Parliament

Thursday 21 February 2008

[THE PRESIDING OFFICER opened the meeting at 09:15]

Scottish Water

The Presiding Officer (Alex Fergusson): Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S3M-1386, in the name of Derek Brownlee, on the future of Scottish Water. I invite members who wish to speak to press their request-to-speak buttons now. The debate is a little undersubscribed, so anybody who would like to speak would be welcome.

Mr Brownlee has seven minutes in theory, but we are a little relaxed about the time.

09:15
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10:20

Stewart Stevenson: The intervention that we have just had from the Conservatives was interesting. It seemed to focus on the minutiae of ownership of an organisation rather than—

Alex Johnstone: It is the key to whole thing.

Stewart Stevenson: That is the point: it is not the key to the problem. The key to the problem is to ask what needs to be delivered for what public benefit. Ownership is only a mechanism that can influence that outcome. It is a sideshow to the real issue, which is whether Scottish Water is delivering for the Scottish people and whether there is more that it can do to do that.

In a sense, the ownership mechanism can be positive or negative, whatever its style. Northern Rock is an entirely different animal from the Royal Bank of Scotland: one is a failing organisation; the other is one of the world's leading banks. They followed a similar model of ownership, so there is a clear disconnect between ownership and achievement.

I am surprised that the party of pragmatism—which the Tories claim to be—should focus on ownership rather than outcomes and what is delivered. That is the heart of the debate, and I hope that we will address it.

Derek Brownlee: The Government's futures trust consultation document says that its starting point is pragmatic. We are agreed on that, but the futures trust would be a private company that would deliver public benefit. Why could that approach not be considered for Scottish Water?

Stewart Stevenson: The private sector is a critical part of our economy. If we can find ways of reducing the cost of borrowing for public projects, which is what we are trying to do with the futures trust mechanism, we should of course pursue it. I am sure that we will have the support of all who examine the numbers.

Speaking of numbers, there were almost none from the Conservatives to back up the proposition that they laid before us. One would expect the party of money to be able to provide figures, but it signally failed to do so. Des McNulty commented that mutualisation appeared to be expensive. Substantial costs would certainly be associated with the conversion to a mutual model for no clear, pragmatic benefit for Scottish Water's customers and the broader community of Scotland.

Liam McArthur referred to meters and to the charitable exemption. There is a consultation on charging, which will close next week, if I recall correctly. I hope that all members will add their tuppenceworth—or their £400 million-worth, in the Tories' case—to that consultation. The exemption is a little more limited than was suggested, in that it covers charities only while they remain in their existing premises. There are some clear discrepancies and issues that will need to be examined when we get the results of the consultation, and members can be sure that the Government will examine them.

I realise that Helen Eadie probably came to the chamber with her speech already written, but I make it absolutely clear to her that we are not supporting mutualisation.

Patrick Harvie: Will Stewart Stevenson give way?

Stewart Stevenson: I think that I am running out of time but I will let Patrick Harvie in if he is brief.

Patrick Harvie: I will be brief in asking why, if the Government rejects mutualisation and the Labour Party supports public ownership, we are wasting time on a review of an option that has already been rejected.

Stewart Stevenson: There is an important point there: it is the Government's role to review continuously the operation of everything in government. The Labour Party amendment supports precisely that idea because it

"calls on the Scottish Government to keep"

the matter "under review". Of course we should do that. We would be roundly criticised if we did not keep matters under review, not just in relation to Scottish Water but across the public sector. I repeat that it is normal, natural and necessary to do that, so of course we will do it, in line with the Labour Party amendment.

Mutualisation is really a financial chimera that is simply a surrogate for privatisation. It is not about delivering the services that the people in Scotland want or about supporting Scottish Water and building on its success of recent years. Scottish Water has a high-quality board with a load of experience. It has the people on board to succeed. It is clear that we should keep the structure, personnel and financing of all public services under review, but that does not mean that we should take a radical shift into the sands of mutualisation.

10:26